reflexes vs. responses - or - do thoughts count?

I know that my progress in this whole thing is only skin deep. I know this because I know what goes on inside my head - what lies beyond skin deep.

I do try to go along with what he says, and I succeed to greater or lesser degrees. But that's the skin deep - the final action/outcome, the response. If he says, "Do X" - I may feel this way or another way about doing X - but I will do it (or not) anyhow. The response involves choices - step on the brake vs. the accelerator, swing or let it go and risk the strike, comply or choose not to. This obviously "counts."

I think that the immediate thought/emotion/first impulse one has about something really doesn't "count." It is like a physical reflex, they happen whether you want them to or not. They are important and very informative as to our state of mind (or body/health). We can't really supress them entirely, but they can be influenced by our state of being beforehand, and we can act to avoid expressing them. But the absence of reflexes indicates a serious problem in the system somewhere. So - I do think it makes sense to study the reflexive feelings/emotions/thoughts: I should ask why I feel the way i do, what issues or barriers are present and what can be done about that. But I don't think I should be held accountable for them - only for my response in spite of them.

Beyond these though, there are parts of my brian or other levels of my thinking about which I am not so sure. It's the endless analysis of why he has asked or done what he has. What are the ramificatin of the whole thing on me? On him? How would my action or inaction impact him? How do I want it to impact him? It's the same way one examines one's interactions with students or children or patients.
On the one hand, it is maybe self aware - self examination and intentionality are good, right? And the goal is truly most often with the other person's interest in mind, how to make things easier, to protect him from worry, to save him the trouble. But it is also somewhat patronizing towards him. It's a kind of mind game, and ultimately, it's effect is manipulation of the other person, no matter the intention behind it. The real leap of faith would be to just comply or not, or maybe first to work to identify the barriers to action- overcome them - then do or don't do.

It's this sort of thinking that I don't know about. First and foremost - I don't know if I really could shut it off, although - if I really try - I can override it. Also - should I - is it useful, natural, generally good? Or is it just manipulative or a sign of serious doubt? It does keep me from coming to him with questions or concerns, or desires because I want to protect him from the trouble of it. But I suppose the question is - should I really be thinking about protecting him, or just trust that he can and will manage.

See what I mean - not so much change in myself if you look further than skin deep.

like father like son

My older son is 12. He is so much like me that we often butt heads spectacularly. We both love to learn, both become so fully engaged in a discussion that we develop tunnel vision, we both live to argue in order to hone our thinking about a topic, we both have to have the last word, and neither of us can stand to wait while someone finishes a sentence. It is the "unstoppable force meets immovable object" if we are both in high gear. My husband tries to re-direct or intercede or at least send us to separate corners when he can. Sometimes he just rolls his eyes and waits it out.

Twelve is an interesting age, as I suppose they all are. He is at times so much a teenager with attitude, at times so much more mature in making connections and putting big concepts together, and sometimes still a little boy. I know that gaining autonomy and independence in his thinking and being are normal and necessary parts of growing up. In most cases they are welcome, he moves through his world, takes care of himself, and sees to his responsibilities with a lot less physical help or oversight than used to be necessary.

The thing I didn't expect was that recently he has begun to flip the tables. He has started trying to take care of me. He asks how my work is going, he checks to make sure I have eaten breakfast and packed a good lunch, he reminds me to get rest and take time for myself, and tells me that he will take care of jobs around the house so I can focus on tasks I need to do. I wondered for awhile where this was coming from. We are not a frontier family or a military family where the father goes off and leaves the oldest son to "be the man of the house." I am not in any way in crisis or under huge stress, in fact the big, big project I was focused on ended last fall, things are much easier now.

I think it comes down to how he sees his father treating me. The way we relate to each other has changed in subtle ways, and this son is incredible at picking up on subtle. I know sons imitate and emulate their fathers, maybe the change in our dynamic came at just the point in my son's growth that it struck him as me needing more care, or he feels he wants to shift his relationship with me. I don't know, I also go back and forth as to how I feel about it. I have trouble with feeling like anyone needs to take care of me - my job is caretaker - so it often annoys me to have my child try to assume that role. I still have to be patient and bite my tongue in order to work with the dynamic with my husband this way, it is much harder for me to accept coming from my son. And I wonder if or how it might undermine my authority, if it means that he sees himself as in charge of me or if it hasn't had that implication for him. On the other hand, it is also sweet and in the end a quality we should encourage in him. All in all, it's not one of the issues I imagined having as we approached teenagehood.

thoughts i can't catch

My past few posts have been fairly light fare, although certainly with some underlying meaning for me. Like (I assume) most everyone else, my thought processes and maybe my growth, in any sort of area, have cycles of intense activity and quieter times. Also, my life, our lives, and our family's activities have ebbs and flows of managable and way too busy. Right now is a time of way too busy. And it is probably no coincidence that it is also a somewhat quieter time inside my head. Except I keep catching glimpses of thoughts that intrigue me or questions I feel that I really want to explore. And then I get distracted agian with everything else. I feel like I can't quite catch the thoughts, that they are just out of reach. I'm putting a few of the pieces here; I don't think they have answers, I haven't thought them through at all, I'm not even sure how I feel about them, maybe they aren't important questions at all, maybe they are.

How does all of this integrate with our real life? Does it eventually come to feel real and natural, an organic part of our relationship that just happens and evolves as we do? Or does it always feel useful but a bit contrived?

Could I ever, and should I ever, (those are two very different issues) really change my thinking to consider my husband before myself in everything? Whatever is good for our relationship, is also good for me, not just him. Should the goal or the object of the effort be him, or should it be our relationship, the "us"?

On the other hand, moving my thinking from whatever it was before, to considering him more than I had, has been good, has been better, and also more right in a lot of ways.

Somehow, perversely, I feel like these changes are making me lazy, or letting me be lazy I guess. I find it too easy to not make decisions, not just work things out myself, not just do what needs to be done. I am sure this isn't a good trend, it's not how I've ever been in the past and it is a little disturbing to see in myself.

Is there a way to just go with all this - or does it need to be thought out and examined the way I do?

What is the balance between learning from others and making it our own, not like anything or anyone elses? Something shifted in me a year ago, and started to shift in our relationship. I do believe that I would not have recognized that fact without a framework or context and that this thing has fit the "us" well in a lot of ways, so it is useful. So, have we come to the end of its usefullness, or is there still more to learn from others, not just on our own? How can I be sure I am looking at and learning from others' ideas, not subconsciously integrating or copying them as my own?

Thanks for bearing with me - with this kind of post. I tend to be unskilled at making my brain tackle things on demand, but when it is ready, it usually happens with a vengence. So I guess I will wait until it is ready.

pushing my limits

There is so much equipment - getting everything tightened down, buckled in, wrist straps in place, the proper pieces over the head and the face, maybe something around the neck.... Then the work. It's so easy for him, he is so much stronger, and so much better at this. I have to push myself just to keep up; in fact, I know he is taking it easy on me, slowing down and choosing simpler ways for me. And there are typically aches and bruises the next day.

But I love this. I love being pushed, I love asking more of my body than I typically do. I love the feeling of flying that happens when it all comes together just right, the feeling of moving just at the edge of control. Of course, if you go a little too far, a little too fast, a little past your limits - it can be quite painful.

Actually - the whole family loves it.

what's the difference?

The other night my husband grabbed one cheek of my ass and squeezed, hard. As he kept at that, his fingers explored in between, teasing just enough to hint at the completely unique, completely overwhelming sensation of anal play. He told me, a few times, that he really liked my ass. I finally asked him if this were something new. Hadn't he all along? (Yes - insecurity is often my default position in these kinds of things) He casually commented that I never would have let him do either of these things "before," that he hadn't had any opportunity to know. I protested of course and insisted that things (i.e., me and my responses) aren't really that different now. He told me to hush so he could carry on.

[Later] that got me thinking. I wondered if things are really so different now. I want to believe that our interactions, our underlying assumptions about our day to day being, and our physical relations are not so different now from then. I want to believe this because we had considered our marriage quite good, and because I don't like to face the obvious ways in which I had limited or stifled the good that we have discovered can be, in so many areas.

I write here about relationship a lot - and it is important, but thinking about how I hobbled him previously is kind of a bigger and more difficult pondering than I am up for today. But, obviously, he is right about what he said that night: as much as I want to believe that I was adventurous and giving and open in our sex life; it just ain't so. I would only let him touch me in some places, only for a little bit, only in certain ways, and only sometimes.... Many things were understood to be verboten.

And I can't imagine why or how I wanted it that way. I love all the ways he touches me, I even love the fact that he does, whether I think I want him to or not. I want to think that had he ever tried a little biting or pinching or restraining, that I would have discovered I really like it and we could have been on this road that much sooner. I know that instead I would have yelped, thrown a fit, and become even more closed off. And nevermind any of the toys, I would have laughed in his face. It turns out that some of them are so - effective. I am instantly aroused and transported when bound, just the sight of certain restraints alters me. And I downright crave the nipple clips. The "things used to hit with" produce their own special dread/excitement/arousal thing. I still feel awkward about some of the toys. We are new and experimenting and learning, but we are frankly having a ball at it.

The best part really is learning so much; not learning techniques, that just happens. But it is wonderful to discover things I never imagined about myself. The very best part though, is learning what he truly likes and wants and enjoys and craves, now that he has the freedom to find out himself.

....and which is illusion?

You know that "He loves me...He love me not" game people do with a daisy? I always assumed the question was being asked to the fates at large - does he love me? Will it all work out? Or is it doomed? Will we not have happily ever after? Where you land on the last petal is the universe providing your truth. Now I think it could well be just the oppposing truths, both equally held, in one woman's mind. It does amaze me that I can, at different times, be utterly convinced of one thing, and at another fully believe the opposite. I know that moods, context, even physiology all affect how I perceive things, and our perceptions are really the only way for us to experience the world. But I would think there should be a mechanism in our minds that allows the perceptions to be studied, compared, filtered, and balanced out to arrive at a true picture of reality. It often just doesn't happen that way though.

Some days I am very self confident, purposeful, enthusiastic, I want to take on challenges and lead the charge. Others, I want to crawl into a hole and disappear, I can't do anything right, I feel like a fruad.

Some days, I know my friends value me, like me, care about me, and are honest with me. Others, I am equally convinced that everyone really just keeps me around because there is something in it for them, that they mock me behind my back, that I am a joke they all share.

Some days I float along feeling that our relationship is going blissfully well, that all the changes are good and positive, that this thing is very real, foundational to our lives, and that he is much happier in his new role. Other times I can't get past the fear that he's just humoring me, waiting for me to quit playing this silly game, that we aren't really doing anything, that I am a phoney.

Most days are spent somewhere in between, neither pollyanna nor morose. But how do we decide which is right, and which is an illusion?


Cold hearted orb that rules the night,
Removes the colours from our sight,
Red is gray and yellow white,
But we decide which is right.
And which is an illusion.

The Moody Blues

symantics

I get tangled up in the symantics of this whole thing - but it's not really just symantics. Many people are much better than I at capturing complex ideas in words, expressing both the heart of the issue and the complexity. I try to see and understand the concepts and their applications, but ultimately I'm a scientist - study, theorize, test, sum it up.... This post is part of where I am right now in trying to understand. (BTW - it doesn't feel very concise, so I have a way to go)

People say you can't submit to yourself. It takes someone submitting for the other to dominate and someone to dominate for the other to submit. This has a certain face validity. One could attempt to dominate, issue a request command or what have you and the ultimate success or failure of the request lies with the sub. It is impossible to dominate if no one is submitting. On the other hand, is having someone dominate an adequate condition for submission? Each time a decision to obey or to submit is called for, the sub has to choose to obey or submit, or to not. Each time. So is that person submitting to the dom or to him or herself? This is really symantics and I have no answer - hopefully others do, I'm curious.

For people who want to move their relationhsip into D/s, the advice is often given to the "s" person to "act submissive," to encourage, allow, make room for the other person to assert his or her dominance. Practically speaking, that means that one person begins to obey, temper their speech, respond to subtle cues, even guess what the other person wants, all without the other ever having thought, intended, or expressed a wish, request or command. In spite of the fact that it seems intuitive that there would need to be someone dominating in order for one to submit, this is not invalid advice. The "me dom, you sub" thing is cut and dried in fiction, maybe in chat rooms or such (I have no way to know), and probably to a great extent in the real world with people who are experienced and know what the heck they are doing (again - not me, not us). In our real world, we are human, and we each want to protect the other, and ourselves. Essentially, for me to say to him - "I will do whatever you want" is not enough, I need to show him both that I mean it, and that it won't hurt me. I needed, sometimes still need, to some extent, to submit to things he hadn't specifically asked.

Carried to a ridiculous extreme (this is about symantics after all), if he wants me to decide something, or to be in charge of a category of things, or for us to work on certain things together, - if I go along with it - aren't I submitting to his wishes by assuming some control? He could ask me to be in charge overall and, in order to submit, I would have to assume charge. The converse is also true: when I went to him to ask him to be in charge, and he agreed, wasn't/isn't that his submitting to my wish?


I have asked a few people how they define "slavery" or D/s. I am not actually looking for a way to identify ourselves - if you read through here you will find none of that, or lots of waffling trying to figure a term that could be shorthand for this thing we seem to have. The pictures people paint of their relationships are quite varied, they do have some similarities, but are truly unique. Ours is no exception. It isn't the titles but the constructs people use which are of great interest to me - to the extent that they can be used in our relationship, to shift us around to an interlocking of pieces that snug together smoothly rather than needing to erode the non-conforming parts of each other to allow a better fit. In our case, finding that fit involves him working out how he would really like things to work, to run, to be - and me working to understand that and see how I can accomplish that - and trying to do it.

He doesn't read very much about all of this. There are times I wish he did. There are aspects of things that appeal to me very much, on any number of levels - some of them quite visceral - some more philosophical. Sometimes I do wish he would happen to somehow know just what I had read, and how I had felt about it, and to work it in. There are also things I assume he knows and find out he doesn't. The mismatch of expectations, knowledge and assumtions can be deflating at best. But I should know much better than to assume. So it is my responsibility not to assume, to tell him or show him what I find that is of interest or what have you. This feels like me leading or at least like asking for what I want over what he wants, so I fall back on the semantics: he has told me this is how he wants it to work so I need to do it this way.

The fact that he doesn't study what other people do or say or suggest means that, ultimately, what he imagines for us is his creation, not pieces of others' (real or fictionalized) dynamics cobbbled together - and this is what I truly want for him, from him, for us. So I do bring ideas to him and I give a LOT of feedback. And then I work very hard to shut up, wait, and see what he does or doesn't do with it. I am always surprised. He almost never responds in anything like a way I would predict, and most often not immediately. But when I do see his response, what he has done or expressed about it - it is always consistant with him. And this is always better than whatever I might have expected or thought I wanted.