Wednesday, August 27, 2014

holding the contradiction

I've managed to avoid a great deal of self doubt about how society would view our arrangement  or does view what it believes about arrangements it believes are like ours.  But every once in awhile - something outside of us, outside of what i see as a virtual community to which i belong (and in a very few cases, an irl community) - every once in awhile something crashes through and impacts me.

It happened last week.  Apparently the two deranged people who kidnapped two little girls and sexually abused them were living as  master and slave, in the kinky, bondage sense, as the news put it.   I also noticed that the media, if not law enforcement, seemed to be mentioning it as a way of relieving the woman from culpability: she was his slave, she had to do it, it was all his fault.  I didn't think a lot about it though, it was just two bad people who did bad things, way too much of that around it seems.

But then we were at a social thing - lots of people we didn't know very well at all, people who are mostly parents of very young children, and i overheard the small talk, including a conversation about this case.  They were aghast and also titillated and  mostly self-righteous about the inherent evil of  'those kinds of people.'

Later that evening my husband and I went for a walk I asked him if he had overheard the same conversation. He hadn't.  In fact he hadn't read about the case at all, at least not anything beyond that the girls had been found.  I was having a very hard time relating the story to him - i couldn't bring myself to say the words submissive, slave or master - i just couldn't get them out.  He was a little impatient with me, he had no idea where i was trying to go because he didn't know the story.

I had thought i had dismissed the whole thing in my mind - but it floored me then.  Eventually i was able to say what it was, and why it upset me so much: suddenly we are 'those people,' people one assumes are evil and child molesters.  But i know that people from so many groups have done evil in the name of that cause, or in the name of that group  or that religion, when it has nothing to do with the group at all.  [Leaving aside the issue of groups being complicit by not rooting those people out.]

Even more so though, was the assumption that i, as the slave or the submissive, have no responsibility for my own actions and decisions. I must be so far lost mentally that i would do even something like that without stopping myself, or him.

But i'm not.  I do think for myself and i do speak up, about all kinds of things that impact us and our family. This is that stupid, absurd hypothetical, 'Would you cut your arm off if he told you to? Would you commit a crime?  Would you sexually abuse children?'  Except that it wasn't hypothetical in this case.  I know damn well that he would never, that this scenario is not in the realm of possible.  And furthermore, i know that if some bizarre turn of events leads to him asking me to do anything wrong, morally or ethically, he fully expects I would say no, and to do what i can to stop him.

This i know - have always known.  But it left me with a flood of self-doubt.  Where is the line?  If i'm to analyze every request for right vs. wrong, and choose to comply or not - how is that submitting?  And I must be no where near slave then, which i do consider myself, except i still don't like that word at all, but i have no other. But if  there are - and there are - things over which i would certainly refuse him - how deep is my commitment really.

This is only a question in the face of the outrageous and completely absurd, the things that won't happen really.  Except it did.  And some man asked the heinous, and some woman didn't stop him.  I know that has very, very little to do with D/s and everything to do with the wrongness of both of them.

It works in my head: I have given my whole self to him, no reservations.  No holding back.  No contingencies.  Not even any limits of my own.  At the same time, I completely retain my own intellect, my judgement, my conscience.  I know that i would disobey, i would work to thwart him if i believed i ought to.  He would have me do no less.  And i can't explain how both of those can possibly be completely true at the same time.  In words and on paper - clearly they can't.  But in me - they are.


  1. The contradiction in my mind has been resolved by knowing that I am owned by a good, decent, moral man. If he'd shown abuser tendencies I would never have stayed with him, as I believe death is too good for people who would abuse children.

    As to whether the slave in the news story has any responsibility I would say possibly, yes, depending on the level of coercion that was used against her. If she went into this voluntarily even knowing what he was, then she is fully responsible as well as him.

    1. Knowing the person i gave myself to is huge. Which makes it tempting to just say - it would never happen so i can just give up my own judgement and conscience - but that isn't what he wants and i think in the end it's an important part of what i give to him, impossible dichotomy and all. And i have no idea if that woman was tortured, coerced, forced, manipulated - an age old story that happens without the name slave also.

  2. It does seem to be the 'meeting of opposites', to say i am all yours...except. But i think not....
    Trust...that He/She are decent, moral people....the knowledge that you and i do have a voice, and are expected to voice it....not in a crazy, maniacal manner, but we do have a voice. And finally...consent can be would be very difficult and heart wrenching..but it can be done.
    I had heard the story, read that they wanted the girls to be their slaves, was not aware of their M/s relationship.
    hugs abby

    1. It would be a very difficulty thing to do, I think that if such a circumstance came to pass, there would be so much more of concern though than preserving the dynamic..... Thank you.

  3. The media will sensationalize anything and everything, inside or outside of any line drawn by anybody.

    How can you say/believe you completely submit to him, how are you truly his slave (or some other, better word) if there are moral or ethical things you would refuse to do? Where is the line? I think the line is in each of you. The line is the values you set for yourselves. He should know you well enough to never expect you to do something that violates the core of you. Nobody ever should be expected to submit to something that compromises who they are and what they believe at their deepest, innermost being. That would not be submission, not even the kind that has been "non-consensual" so long the couple has forgotten there was consent given at the beginning. D/s or M/s requires knowledge of your partner, pushing the line without crossing it, because crossing it is elementally wrong, abusive to the soul/spirit/core.

    In this case, it is impossible to know her level of "voluntary" involvement because we do not know her heart's intent

    1. ...nor the nature of their dynamic.

      (Blogger is possessed, publishing all on its own before I finished or proofread. Lol!)

      At any rate, gg, media and gossips often are indistinguishable. They also cannot tell the difference between varieties of dynamics, nor are they much inclined to try unless it serves their own purposes.

      You submit to your husband because you want to, and because you can. He is a man worthy of your trust at that level, yet he is not perfect. You always retain the right and responsibility to watch out for him and yourself at times when he is imperfect and begins to cross the line that matters to both of you.

      You are completely correct in saying you can work it out within you so the two concepts are possible, but it is difficult to put into words without using extreme analogies (cutting off arms, etc). I don't think it is necessary to be 100% purist in this, and I wonder if it is possible to be 100% and still retain a sense of self.

      I agree the atrocities inflicted on those little girls were not the result of their basic M/s dynamic, but they obviously had an abhorrent kink born from twisted sickness. Of course, some would say I am being judgmental, and we should never denigrate someone's kink. I say there is kink, and then there is stink - and these criminals reek of it.

      Weighty topic and very good post! I'm glad I checked my blog feed and stopped by. :-)

    2. Pretty much what Irishey said ^^^

      But if we didn't stop and question, try to explore what the relationship is about and how this apparent dichotomy works, we would miss some of the value of M/s. It is the "stopping to check how this works for me" that helps keep the dynamic safe.

      Thanks for writing this.



    3. Irishey - you've expressed it so well - what i was fumbling around trying to get at. I do believe that both sides are true within me - and i believe it is important that they be so, even though it is less simple this way. The irony is that he wants me - all of me - and to give him that i have to retain the parts that would say no if i need to. Thank you for your comments - you put much more depth to it.

    4. Sofia - that's a good point i hadn't thought about - i do tend to poke and push at the how's and why's and not just the what's - and it does keep it - not just safe - but it keeps me actively engaged in the dynamic as well. thank you.

  4. 'It works in my head: I have given my whole self to him, no reservations. No holding back. No contingencies. Not even any limits of my own. At the same time, I completely retain my own intellect, my judgement, my conscience. I know that i would disobey, i would work to thwart him if i believed i ought to. He would have me do no less. And i can't explain how both of those can possibly be completely true at the same time. In words and on paper - clearly they can't. But in me - they are. '

    oh thank so much for this paragraph - it made perfect sense to me, because that's how it is for me too.

    1. I'm glad it resonates with you. I have to think that this is true for most people, people in good healthy dynamics of this type. But maybe not - i can't see in people's heads. Maybe there is another way of making it work.

  5. Greengirl, I came across this story too and these similar thoughts hit me.
    But people using the terms, or the lifestyle as an excuse for abhorrent behaviour are not anywhere in my realm. It's knowing the real from the unreal and the heart of the matter. You know your husband would never ask you to commit a crime because his morals aren't anywhere near that potential--in that regard, it's a non-issue.

    1. My husband had to remind me that people have bastardized causes, religions, ideas, etc for their own evil throughout history. And other people have assumed and judged what they misunderstand or what they don't know anything about through history as well. And yes - it is a non-issue for us. He is a very good man.