Humiliation hasn't been a part of what we do - or what he does to me. Maybe it is just deeply ingrained that a man doesn't treat a woman that way; it took him some time to become comfortable with hitting me, maybe causing emotional distress feels even more wrong. Maybe he has a sense that it would have the potential to really damage me. Maybe it would. Maybe it is hard for him to reconcile wanting to be with me if he views me as something i should be ashamed of. Maybe it's just simply not in his wiring; if it doesn't do anything for him, there are plenty of other means at his disposal to get what he wants out of me.....
He does however tease me. I have no idea how he manages it, but his teasing sometimes walks a very thin line between hurtful and absolutely effective. I think he can do it because he knows exactly where my insecurities lie, and which ones are flexible and which ones are rock solid. He can tease me no end about being short, I am, and i'm not at all insecure about it. Even a hint of a jab at my figure however would be devastating. Those are the easy ones. There are insecurities i have that are harder to predict though. Even i can't tell you why i sometimes am quite at ease with certain things and other times filled with self doubt.
For example, he does tease me about my neediness, about the fact that i am nearly constantly wanting or even aroused, that i hint around, that i come to him using whatever tricks i think i can get away with to let him know what i want. He makes a big show of turning me down and rolling his eyes and acting put upon. It does make me pause and wonder about myself. Maybe teasing me about being needy is really the same as calling me a slut or a whore. The implication is certainly the same. I know that he loves me needy though. He may get genuinely frustrated when my efforts to sway him are poorly timed, but he is thrilled to have me ready when he wants and to be able to play with me and manipulate me by my libido.
If he called me dirty names, or made me refer to myself that way - i don't know if it would feel humiliating or just artifical and contrived, like he was doing something he had read somewhere, not what he really wanted. Of course, maybe the fact of seeming so out of character and artificial would be the source of the humiliation. Being made to do something i didn't believe he would ever ask of me, and not being allowed to question him about it, has had very interesting effects on me in other situations.
He also teases me about being kinky and about my kinks specifically - that i want to be hurt til i cry, that i need him to overpower me and subdue me, that restraining my body unleashes it. This is right there at the edge of my insecurities. I do still wonder why i'm wired this way. And i still really wonder why he isn't put off or even disgusted by me being this way. It isn't normal, why should he have to put up with it, what must he really think of me? It's a really fine line: too far and it would push me into a tailspin of self doubt. As backwards as it seems, i think the balance he strikes helps strengthen my trust that it's ok, that he really likes all this too, that it's like being short, it's just who i am.
So is it (the right kind of) humiliation if it picks at an insecurity? If not, if it only picks at an area that a person "should" feel shame about, but knows the other person actually revels in - why is that still effective? I know this ignores a huge chunk of the spectrum of humiliting possibilites, like being made to do or endure things that are shaming. Maybe those aren't a consideration for us because it is of no interest to him, maybe i couldn't handle it anyhow, if simply being teased is challenging enough.
"Maybe it is hard for him to reconcile wanting to be with me if he views me as something i should be ashamed of."
ReplyDeleteWhen we first started dabbling in humiliation I had a really hard time understanding how Alpha could possibly love and respect me afterwords. He said He respected and loved me more because I was willing to do/let Him do, those things to me. That it showed the depths I was willing to explore just to please Him. Because it was an experience I was willing to have just for His pleasure.
And I must admit, though difficult to reconcile with, it has it's turn ons.
What makes you think, "It isn't normal . . ."?
ReplyDeleteI must agree with David, as I read this before I got to his comment I wondered in my head "what is normal" and "who decides".
ReplyDeleteAnything done often enough becomes normal.
greengirl,
ReplyDeleteMy Husband teases me all the time and for some of the very reasons you mentioned. I find it terribly humiliating.
I like to think of all these kinky thoughs as better than normal.
Love,
Serenity
lil,
ReplyDeleteHonestly - if this were somethng he asked of me, I would do my best to oblige. Unlike other things that leave a distinct impression in my mind in hte hypothetical, this leaves me just confused. I really don't know how i feel abotu it, and I'm not sure he does either.
David and J,
Sirs, this is not a small question. The easy answer is that it is outside of what all the usual sources that tell us what is normal: my peers, my family, mainstream media.... For me and for us, it is a radical change from how we had lived and related for the previous almost 20 years.
I do believe it isn't normal - i.e., it is outside of the norm. Maybe I would be proven wrong if people were all much mroe open and the norm could really be known.
I understand that averages and pop culture aren't the point though. I don't believe anything about this is wrong, or unhealthy, or bad for us - it's the opposite really. And I know my husband doesn't care at all about normal or not - I should look at why i'm still concerned with it.
Thank you both
Serenity,
Do you fnd you tolerate the teasing better than you used to? I don't know if I'm more confident in us, or if he's learning me better, but it is different.And i like your way of viewing 'normal' - thanks.
I did not mean to make light of your situation, although I was half joking with my comment. Truth be known, I suspect there are a lot more people than we would expect who are playing around with what embarrasses, and touching insecurities, and name calling, and other humiliations. I would suggest that people who do it in a D/s context are more deliberate and conscious about it and attentive to the results so as not to do harm. I think a lot of it is probably done in a passive/aggressive or destructive way with less regard for the feelings being toyed with.
ReplyDeleteI think there is a difference in doing it to titillate versus doing it to gain an upper hand.
As you said, if people were more open, perhaps a "norm" could be established.
Like you, the few times my Master used the words, it too rang hollow. It was clear he did not believe the words or want to believe the words. I finally have come to the conclusion that he does now want to see me like that. I think he wants to own a princess... blech...
ReplyDeleteInteresting post, lots to think about.
ReplyDeleteDavid's comments strike a chord with me too - I think that D/s is a better thought out way of expressing dynamics that probably occur in everybody and are supressed and ignored. More open and thougtful may not be "normal" but I think they're healthier.
aisha
xantu,
ReplyDeleteLOL - the princess part is perfect - i so do not want any part of that role either. But yes - my husband has not read this and told me he is not interested in the words or names. Actions on the other hand - that's gray for now...
aisha,
i agree - and it's a big part of why comments are wonderful - I hadn't considered it from that POV. I used "normal" as a throw away example, but it does get at an important point.